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War has always come down to logistics and atrition.
I build all guards, i dont care about retraining time.
The best strategy is to have more cities than the other guy, i build troops faster cuz i have more stables to build them in

If ever you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan very well !

Nikhil21 wrote:I'm just saying, in an all out op on you or when all your cities are in enemy areas having lots of guards is really effective. Maybe not all guards, but mainly guards. Especially when your sleeping, many of your offense cities could get ******ed easily in the night.if your playing in a world with not alot of competition then it's much more relaxed.

As i mentioned earlier in the thread, my guild and I have dispatched many players who relied on an all guard strategy. While they defended well initially, they didn't last long under the constant onslaught. In the end, it always boils down to retraining time and logistics.

I'm just saying, in an all out op on you or when all your cities are in enemy areas having lots of guards is really effective. Maybe not all guards, but mainly guards. Especially when your sleeping, many of your offense cities could get ******ed easily in the night.if your playing in a world with not alot of competition then it's much more relaxed.

LordFirefall wrote:Its common sense and basic logistics. People using an all guard strategy are using one training center. A combined arms approach (one that uses lancer/sentry/guard for defense and zerk/(knight or guard)/ram for offense) will train much faster than one who uses just guards. The logistics piece comes in because using a combined arms approach takes up a more even distribution of resources than doing all of one type. I can restock a pure attack city in about 3.5 days on a WS2/US1 world, using that strategy, and the same goes for a pure defense city.

I absolutely agree with LFF, An propitiate choice for a quick build time is to have units spread across all of your production units, Think about it logically nachos as if you are using only 1 type of building it would take greater time. Guards are a good overall unit but never a good strategic unit when fighting an all out war. Maybe a couple of LC's could be Guards for quick support but i feel its better to simply have most cities in a mixed state with no more than 1k guards in them for quick support or strategic attacking e.g while facing a sentry dominated defense. Have about 2k lancer and 2k sentry as well which do not leave city unless extremely urgent and have the rest as an offensive.

Again, I based my assertions off of my experience and Nachos's math.

If time is a huge factor shadow, I'd go with guards as evidenced by Nachos's math. However, if time doesn't matter or if you have the cities to cover you while you rebuild, I'd recommend building 10k L and S because, disregarding build time that build will give you more defensive power per population and city. The drawback is that it takes much longer to build. The advantage is that you have more defensive power per unit

I just wanted a PURE defense city.. My barbs are full with 10k zerks ++

Nachos - nice math and nice work. However, I never said I was using all foot soldiers for defense. While I won't get into the exact mix I use, I go with a lancer/sentry/guard mix in the defense. I maximize the use of my training centers, whether I'm running offense or defense. My defensive mix takes about 4.5 days to restock fully, but that's still better than 5.96.

I have NEVER said guards weren't a great unit. Yes, they are better, pound for pound, at defense AND offense. What I have said, and will continue to say, is when you factor in retraining time, all guard cities aren't the way to go. Your own math demonstrates that (3.33 days vs 5.96 days). They aren't the best, even when you factor in attack power. When you factor in population unit requirements, zerks and knights both have better attack power, as a ratio of population (50 per pop for Zerks, ~37 per pop for knights, and ~29 for guards).

Nikhil - every world I've been in has had constant war, from early on. I keep a hefty amount of guards around, as a mobile reserve. However, for prepared defenses, I have a lot of foot around as well. With a little analysis, its not hard to predict what cities the enemy will attack, so I rarely get caught unprepared.

Guards can be used for both attack and defense and are perfect in a quick paced world, maybe there isn't alot of competition in your world which allows you to have a different build and be effective.
Assuming you have separate offense/defense cities, unless you got all day it won't be easy to defend against attacks stretched out over a while. All guard cities means each and every city is capable of defending itself. And guards are fast, lancers and sentries sometimes are just too slow, especially in old worlds. Guards may not be the best attacking unit or the best defensive unit but they are the best unit. Lol

Ok let me settle this debate.

You said you can build a full 20k population city in 3.5 days. I crunched some numbers and its actually possible

L25 B = 1,771 zerks/day
L20 S = 1,102 knights/day
L20 WS = 413 rams/day

You said you make more than 600 rams usually. They don't take long to build, let's assume you're stopping at 800 that's 3,200 farm space.

1,102K=3,306 farm space
1,771Z=1,771 farm space

Together that's 5,077 farm space used per day. Assuming you're working with 20,000 population (for easier calculations)

20,000-3,200(rams)=16,800

16,800/5,077=3.3days

Meaning it takes a minimum of 3 days and 8 hours to max the farm space if you stop at 800 rams.

That build in that time frame means you'll make:
5,313 berserkers
3,306 knights
800 rams

For defense:

Lets say you go with 10,000L and 10,000S building consecutivly.

It takes 9.57 hours to build 1,000 lancer.
9.5*10=95.7/24(hr/day)=3.98 days

It takes 14.58 hours to build 1,000 sentries.
14.58*10=145.8/24(hr/day)=6.07 days

6.07+3.98=10.05 days build time.

Now looking at guardians.

L20 S= 831 Guards/day

831G=3,354 farm space/ day

20,000/3,354=5.96 days to build 5,000 guardians.

Add the time it takes to build the berserker/knight/ram city with the time it takes to build the lancer/sentry city.

3.3+10.05=13.35 days

That's 2 different cities, obviously you can build them at the same time. However that means you get 2 cities full of guardians.

5.96+5.96=11.92 days. That's almost 1 and 1/2 day faster than the other build. But here's where it gets interesting.


Zerks get 50 attacker power per unit. Knights get 110 per unit.

5,077Z*50=253,850
3,306K*110=363,650

363,650+253,850=617,510AP

1 lancer gets 25 defense against infantry units and 50 defense against mounted units. 1 sentry gets 65 defense against infantry units and 25 defense against mounted units.

Lancer:
10,000*25=250,000 I.Defense
10,000*50=500,000 M.Defense
Sentry:
10,000*65=650,000 I.Defense
10,000*25=250,000 M.Defense

Lancer+Sentry:
Infantry Defense
250,000+650,000=900,000 ID
Mounted Defense:
500,000+250,000=750,000 MD

Guardians get 140 infantry defense per unit, 110 mounted defense per unit, and 115 attack power per unit. However don't forget you get 2 guardian cities for a L/S and B/K/R city.

5,000*2=10,000.

10,000*140=1,400,000 ID that's 155% of what the L/S city gives.

10,000*110=1,100,000 MD that's 147% of what the L/S city gives.

10,000*115=1,150,00 Attack Power. That's 186% of what the B/K/R city gives you.

I've laid my case as to why I like full guardian cities in old worlds. Now tell me. Why WOULDN'T you make your cities full guardian?