Changes to Chaos on Worlds opened on/after June 6th

[Kingjason666]

I hope this is what you were chasing Playmesh

Many of the players in my world use gold. What they want to know is how do they transfer gold to another player before they delete valor.

[LordFirefall]

Sorry no way to do that either. The way I intend to do it is to instant spy enemies of my guild and post the reports for them in Kakao.

[PwnLaw]

Hey folks --

If you want more information on where we're going with chaos, check out the Valor 2.0 post here. This was the big project we've been working on for the last month (with chaos changes being a part of that).

Chaos changes were meant to be announced today with those changes going live next week. As you know, things got a bit ahead of themselves with the premature release yesterday. We're pretty bummed because it's cast a bit of a shadow of the launch of Valor 2.0, but hopefully you guys can still get excited about things.

For those not inclined to go over, here's the update on chaos:
- The changes do NOT affect current worlds.
- Chaos will be removed from worlds opening on and after June 6th (and will likely be removed for the foreseeable future).
- We'll be detailing the entire chaos policy on June 6th, including the new numbers.

And since it is coming up a lot, I wanted to mention that 15 outgoing is not the limit we've got slated. That, again, was a system we did not intend to go live (it was for internal testing).

With respect to a lot of the suggestions, we expect there will be some downstream modifications as chaos gets phased out. I'm planning on spending most of the weekend looking at various scenarios and I will be taking the suggestions in this post into account. As usual, I'm seeing some pretty solid analysis that I am absolutely going to consider and present to the team. I fully expect that this will be a running discussion, and we'll open up a new thread to give folks inclined to participate room to debate once the chaos changes are launched.

Valor existed for a good stretch of time without chaos and there were some pretty epic times to be had. You guys have a right to complain about major changes midstream, but we're convinced the future of Valor is better without chaos.

[Catija]

Howdy, boys...

I've been perusing this topic since last night and really been thinking about what everyone's been saying and I thought I would weigh in. I've got cities in three worlds... one I only half play because it's just too darn slow... one I just started and my main world that's got 23 cities and nearly a million points. Yes, next to a bunch of you, I'm a duffer but here's what I have to say about what you've all said.

1: Chaos... chaos... yes... good/bad whatever... there are solutions that can make it less necessary, yes, I get that people can't always be "on" but chaos isn't really a great solution. There has to be another way that is both effective, preferably free, and more "realistic".

2: Surviving troops of capturing attacks should stay put instead of walking home.

3: Attacks sent by the capturing player should automatically become support rather than attacking the newly captured city. A confident player could time support "attacks" to arrive right after the last scholar hits.

3b: Make attacks from the conquering player's guild/alliance do the same.

4: Allow players to support allied guilds.

5: Find a better solution for the fifteen attacks on a city per player limit. I get that there has to be some way to limit the number of attacks on a city to prevent server issues... I'm not sure this is the best solution. As stated before, five scholar attacks leaves only ten to clear.

6: Scholar effects should stack... every other troops attacks stack, but not the scholars... why?

7: Modified Rally Point/"Knight's Tower"... Meh... I think it will only make the strong stronger without really helping anything.

8: Give me some notifications on incoming attacks when they get sent... if they exist, I don't get them.

9: Consider building in protection for part-time and weaker players by limiting incoming attacks per city based on the number of cities they have. If you have 100 cities, you're not likely to whine about losing one or two... if you only have 10, it hurts and can be difficult to exact revenge.

10: Allow players to "reassign" troops to another city rather than just supporting them. Don't get rid of support, just add reassignment or something like that... you could even limit it to between a player's own cities (farm size permitting, of course).

Hope that all wasn't too long...

~Catija

[Dendessa]

I agree with the others here who have objected to the "realism" argument as the justification for getting rid of chaos. There are countless other attributes to this game that are not present in real war situations in any time period that have not been touched at all and we are now encouraged to purchase in lieu of chaos.

Truce...In war there's a magical button that causes everything to freeze for 24hrs only? Much more likely than the road to that particular city being jammed by the traffic from 40 fakes....

Prestige...Ignoring the fact that very rarely do we see countries taken over by 4 or 5 college professors- now we're expected to believe it can be done with less people by sending MENSA Members.

Aurora's Blessing...a half naked woman who magically makes it easier for you to manage your cities? Yeah...ok!

Don't get me wrong....i've purchased just about everything available in the Valor store at one point or another, but in no way do I view this game as being REALISTIC.

It's a game and like it or not the server limitations that originally started "Chaos" have now become a tactic for both offensive and defensive strategies that many people have built their whole game play experience around.

[PwnLaw]

Howdy, boys...

I've been perusing this topic since last night and really been thinking about what everyone's been saying and I thought I would weigh in. I've got cities in three worlds... one I only half play because it's just too darn slow... one I just started and my main world that's got 23 cities and nearly a million points. Yes, next to a bunch of you, I'm a duffer but here's what I have to say about what you've all said.

1: Chaos... chaos... yes... good/bad whatever... there are solutions that can make it less necessary, yes, I get that people can't always be "on" but chaos isn't really a great solution. There has to be another way that is both effective, preferably free, and more "realistic".

2: Surviving troops of capturing attacks should stay put instead of walking home.

3: Attacks sent by the capturing player should automatically become support rather than attacking the newly captured city. A confident player could time support "attacks" to arrive right after the last scholar hits.

3b: Make attacks from the conquering player's guild/alliance do the same.

4: Allow players to support allied guilds.

5: Find a better solution for the fifteen attacks on a city per player limit. I get that there has to be some way to limit the number of attacks on a city to prevent server issues... I'm not sure this is the best solution. As stated before, five scholar attacks leaves only ten to clear.

6: Scholar effects should stack... every other troops attacks stack, but not the scholars... why?

7: Modified Rally Point/"Knight's Tower"... Meh... I think it will only make the strong stronger without really helping anything.

8: Give me some notifications on incoming attacks when they get sent... if they exist, I don't get them.

9: Consider building in protection for part-time and weaker players by limiting incoming attacks per city based on the number of cities they have. If you have 100 cities, you're not likely to whine about losing one or two... if you only have 10, it hurts and can be difficult to exact revenge.

10: Allow players to "reassign" troops to another city rather than just supporting them. Don't get rid of support, just add reassignment or something like that... you could even limit it to between a player's own cities (farm size permitting, of course).

Hope that all wasn't too long...

~Catija

Not too long at all. A lot of these things are on our list to consider. There was a long stretch where there was no chaos and Valor worked pretty well during that period, so we're not inclined to make major alterations out of the gate. That said, we're going to be putting a lot of effort into ensuring there is the right attack/defense balancing in non-chaos worlds. From past experience, we're confident things will evolve in a pretty solid manner, but we've got eagle eyes on it.

In short: Thank you for the list. We are documenting every post in this thread. Including the ones ripping us a new one (which goes under the sad smiley column). Constructive posts like this make a big impact on our thinking of the game. In some instances we'll be reaching out to players directly to have them elaborate on their ideas more.

[PwnLaw]

I agree with the others here who have objected to the "realism" argument as the justification for getting rid of chaos. There are countless other attributes to this game that are not present in real war situations in any time period that have not been touched at all and we are now encouraged to purchase in lieu of chaos.

Truce...In war there's a magical button that causes everything to freeze for 24hrs only? Much more likely than the road to that particular city being jammed by the traffic from 40 fakes....

Prestige...Ignoring the fact that very rarely do we see countries taken over by 4 or 5 college professors- now we're expected to believe it can be done with less people by sending MENSA Members.

Aurora's Blessing...a half naked woman who magically makes it easier for you to manage your cities? Yeah...ok!

Don't get me wrong....i've purchased just about everything available in the Valor store at one point or another, but in no way do I view this game as being REALISTIC.

It's a game and like it or not the server limitations that originally started "Chaos" have now become a tactic for both offensive and defensive strategies that many people have built their whole game play experience around.

Fair point Dendressa. We agree. Chaos changes will not be affecting existing worlds.

[HighlordRunge]

Sorry no way to do that either. The way I intend to do it is to instant spy enemies of my guild and post the reports for them in Kakao.

I told you so :-)

[HighlordRunge]

Wrong post response :-/

[Kingjason666]

Thanks for the reply Playmesh. Great to see action coming from this thread.

Great work on only making new changes in new worlds. I will pass this through my world ASAP.

You say the 15 attacks are not going to be the limit. But they are in effect ATM. When will they go back to normal.

And what will new limit be.?

Thanks.