I contacted support over 2 years ago about this , and reply was its one tactic to use and now cheat ?
If it was ok in past leave it that way on older worlds many play with it and implant this in newer world I my personal opinion is it other bugg to fix first one is magic troops that pop up in cities and people usen it to attack or defend that it cheating.
I have run int to player have over 14k guards outside city and attacked with more then 30 k troops from same city
Negative Scholars
Anyone remember the P90 in Call of Duty 4? You could shoot a P90 guy in the back, he could spin around and start shooting you and kill you before you could kill him, even tho you were putting more bullets into him for longer. YES everyone could use that overpowered weapon and thus*even out the playing field...but the game would be broken. So if i remember correctly, the game designers fixed that.
Two completely different types of games, but the comparison is valid. The P90 users weren't cheating, they were only doing something everyone could do. But it broke the game. Its the same with negative scholars. When I can capture 100 cities in a day, because I had 500 scholars sitting around due to negative scholars...that creates an overwhelming advantage over someone who doesnt do that. Yes there are disadvantages to negative scholars. But thats outweighed by the massive amount of troops and cities they gain. Someone who doesnt use the exploit cannot stand up to that...the neg scholar user grows way too fast to be overcome...especially if they have a whole guild behind them clearing targets for their scholars.
Two completely different types of games, but the comparison is valid. The P90 users weren't cheating, they were only doing something everyone could do. But it broke the game. Its the same with negative scholars. When I can capture 100 cities in a day, because I had 500 scholars sitting around due to negative scholars...that creates an overwhelming advantage over someone who doesnt do that. Yes there are disadvantages to negative scholars. But thats outweighed by the massive amount of troops and cities they gain. Someone who doesnt use the exploit cannot stand up to that...the neg scholar user grows way too fast to be overcome...especially if they have a whole guild behind them clearing targets for their scholars.
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LordFirefall
- Posts: 1002
- Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 4:15 am
- Location: Montival
Pontiacguy wrote:I contacted support over 2 years ago about this , and reply was its one tactic to use and now cheat ?
If it was ok in past leave it that way on older worlds many play with it and implant this in newer world I my personal opinion is it other bugg to fix first one is magic troops that pop up in cities and people usen it to attack or defend that it cheating.
I have run int to player have over 14k guards outside city and attacked with more then 30 k troops from same city
Magic troops are fixed now. If you are still seeing it, I would put in a support ticket and Quark will delete them (they have in W95).
As far as what was done in the past, companies, and people, change. We've had a lot of changes with Valor in the last 6-8 months. You also have a very active and receptive game lead now. PwnLaw wasn't in that position back when this first surfaced, so the answer given two years ago wouldn't match the sentiment now. Based on my dealings with him, he listens and makes decisions based on what will better the game.
Pwnlwn, please consider retracting that negative scholars is an exploit. Rather, please comment that it is a permitted exploit until addressed in a later version. There is no sense to having uncertainty exist about how the hand of valor may deal with current "exploiters".
Because everyone can do it if working together, it is not something that has an uneven playing field. In fact, it contributes to the expeditious conclusion of a already decided world. Taking it away in an already decided world is a set back of expectations.
I find it unlikely that Playmesh will want to analyze factual circumstances and insert its own judgment about who is an imperssible exploiter and what the consequences, if any, are. Instead, the cloud of uncertainty has some players averse while others damn the torpedos.
Please retract the overhang. I can imagine that the negative scholar issue needs to be altered in conjunction with new MCM tools rolling out any time. A simple fix could be to cap negative scholars at-10 or pick a number. A dispersion rule would need to be created as to how the scholars die/leave the world. Whatever the case, i believe in the competitive spirit of valor but the uncertainty that pwnlwns message created has, in my view, done more harm than good because it crates uncertainty to an otherwise clear set of rules that everyone is availed.
-joe
Because everyone can do it if working together, it is not something that has an uneven playing field. In fact, it contributes to the expeditious conclusion of a already decided world. Taking it away in an already decided world is a set back of expectations.
I find it unlikely that Playmesh will want to analyze factual circumstances and insert its own judgment about who is an imperssible exploiter and what the consequences, if any, are. Instead, the cloud of uncertainty has some players averse while others damn the torpedos.
Please retract the overhang. I can imagine that the negative scholar issue needs to be altered in conjunction with new MCM tools rolling out any time. A simple fix could be to cap negative scholars at-10 or pick a number. A dispersion rule would need to be created as to how the scholars die/leave the world. Whatever the case, i believe in the competitive spirit of valor but the uncertainty that pwnlwns message created has, in my view, done more harm than good because it crates uncertainty to an otherwise clear set of rules that everyone is availed.
-joe
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CollinzTheGreat
- Lancer
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:24 am
Hi folks, what a great discussion! I've enjoyed reading the comments, even if it's taken me a few days over breakfast lol. Thanks to all for your views. Most of it has been said. My point is simply that the crappest part of Valor is scholarship building. Once you reach a few hundred cities it takes hours and hours to scroll through your cities to build a few scholars. It was at this point I almost quit until I was told about the negative scholars. This allowed me to focus on the battle component and guild component of the game which is the strongest part. If you just want to repeatedly press the same buttons for hours on end there are plenty of other games like this. Valor fortunately is not this type of game - its a ruthless war game where u can kill and be killed. Thanks for reading. Hayj
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Kingjason666
- Knight
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:50 am
Scholars Need Scholarships
How it works: Training scholars, for the most part, is like training any other unit type. Scholars take time to produce and require resources and food to train; however, they also have one unique prerequisite: scholarships.
Before you can build your first scholar, you must purchase a scholarship. As you purchase scholarships, your scholar limit rises, allowing you to train additional scholars.
Purchasing your first scholarship will raise your scholar limit to 1, allowing you to build 1 scholar. In order to train a second scholar you must raise your scholar limit to 2 by purchasing 2 more scholarships. Training a third scholar requires scholar limit 3, which requires 3 more scholarships, and so on. Note that by the time you are able to train your third scholar you will have purchased a total of 6 scholarships.
The Academy: the academy provides two sections that may come in handy when training your scholars: Scholarships and Scholars.
1) Scholarships: The scholarships section displays:
your current scholar limit
the scholarships still needed to reach the next scholar limit
the scholarships saved to reach the next scholar limit
Remember, the amount of scholarships you must purchase is determined by your scholar limit. This relationship can be explained in the following equation:
Scholarships needed to reach next scholar limit = current scholar limit + 1
2) Scholars: The scholar section displays:
your current scholar limit
your total existing scholars
your scholars currently being trained
your conquered cities (not including you starting city)
number of scholars you can educate
Knowing how your scholar limit corresponds to the subsections of the scholar section is vital to your success in conquering other cities. This relationship can be explained in the following equation:
Scholar limit = existing scholars + scholars being trained + conquered cities + scholars you can educate
What is Loyalty?
Loyalty is a measurement of your city’s allegiance to your sovereignty. Loyalty naturally rises as you maintain control of your city by 1-3 points per hour (check your world’s setting for specific numbers). It reaches its peak at 100 points.
Scholars are used to lower the loyalty of enemy cities. A successful scholar attack will lower a city’s loyalty by 20-30 points. When one of your scholars lowers a city’s loyalty to 0, you gain control of that city, and that city’s loyalty is immediately reset to 25 points.
Prestige is a gold-based power-up that will increase your scholars’ effectiveness from a 20-30 loyalty drop to a 25-35 loyalty drop for 24 hours.
Special Cases
Negative Scholars: There may come a time during your conquest when you cannot produce scholarships due to the section: “Number of scholars you can educate” displaying a negative number. This issue is commonly referred to as “Negative Scholars”.
“Negative scholars” typically occurs when you conquer a city that has existing scholars in it. These scholars become your scholars, raising your existing scholars tally. You can see how gaining new scholars from conquering a city may result in negative scholars from the following example equation:
5 scholar limit - (1 existing scholars + 2 scholars gained from conquest + 0 scholars being trained + 3 conquered cities) = -1 available scholar spaces
As you can see in the example above, the 2 scholars you gained from conquering the city caused you to exceed your current scholar limit of 5. In order to produce more scholars, you must first purchase the adequate amount scholarships to catch your scholar limit up to your surplus of scholars.
Scholars as Support: Scholars have no function when supporting a city; however, when conquering a city, you may often experience a confusing result of having “Negative Scholars” upon conquering the city. Fret not!
Instead, check the rally point of your recently conquered city and you may just find a few scholars out supporting an enemy city! These scholars were moved away from the city you just conquered as means of protecting them from getting killed in the siege. Much to your enemy’s chagrin, you now control the scholars that were sent away as support!
Simply recall them back to your base, and you’ll have just gained a few scholars without having to actually pay for them! You will, of course, need to build up your scholarship levels, if you are experiencing “Negative Scholars”, before training additional scholars.
Scholar Trains: Multiple scholars sent in the same attack wave will only lower a city’s defense by 20-30 points. Because of this feature, it often becomes necessary to send multiple attack waves, each containing a scholar, in quick succession. These are commonly referred to as “Scholar Trains”.
Conquering Your Own City: When a player sends a scholar train at a city, it is possible that the player may conquer the target city before the last scholar in the train reaches the city. When the last scholar in the train reaches the city, it will treat the city like an enemy city and proceed to lower its points. If the city’s points reach 0 again, the last scholar will be absorbed into the city (just like the one before it) and you will have used two (or more) scholars to take the city. Only one scholar will actually count toward your scholar limit, but all other scholars lost in this way must be re-trained at the academy. Plan your scholar trains strategically to avoid conquering your own city!
Written by bananabandana (Game Designer)
The above words were posted by Orlor a while ago. Please tell ,e where it says neg scholars are cheating?? It doesn't at all. So why are players that played the game for years going to be punished by something that wasn't tagged as cheating (until now). Above it explains who to get neg scholars but says nothing about not doing it.
How it works: Training scholars, for the most part, is like training any other unit type. Scholars take time to produce and require resources and food to train; however, they also have one unique prerequisite: scholarships.
Before you can build your first scholar, you must purchase a scholarship. As you purchase scholarships, your scholar limit rises, allowing you to train additional scholars.
Purchasing your first scholarship will raise your scholar limit to 1, allowing you to build 1 scholar. In order to train a second scholar you must raise your scholar limit to 2 by purchasing 2 more scholarships. Training a third scholar requires scholar limit 3, which requires 3 more scholarships, and so on. Note that by the time you are able to train your third scholar you will have purchased a total of 6 scholarships.
The Academy: the academy provides two sections that may come in handy when training your scholars: Scholarships and Scholars.
1) Scholarships: The scholarships section displays:
your current scholar limit
the scholarships still needed to reach the next scholar limit
the scholarships saved to reach the next scholar limit
Remember, the amount of scholarships you must purchase is determined by your scholar limit. This relationship can be explained in the following equation:
Scholarships needed to reach next scholar limit = current scholar limit + 1
2) Scholars: The scholar section displays:
your current scholar limit
your total existing scholars
your scholars currently being trained
your conquered cities (not including you starting city)
number of scholars you can educate
Knowing how your scholar limit corresponds to the subsections of the scholar section is vital to your success in conquering other cities. This relationship can be explained in the following equation:
Scholar limit = existing scholars + scholars being trained + conquered cities + scholars you can educate
What is Loyalty?
Loyalty is a measurement of your city’s allegiance to your sovereignty. Loyalty naturally rises as you maintain control of your city by 1-3 points per hour (check your world’s setting for specific numbers). It reaches its peak at 100 points.
Scholars are used to lower the loyalty of enemy cities. A successful scholar attack will lower a city’s loyalty by 20-30 points. When one of your scholars lowers a city’s loyalty to 0, you gain control of that city, and that city’s loyalty is immediately reset to 25 points.
Prestige is a gold-based power-up that will increase your scholars’ effectiveness from a 20-30 loyalty drop to a 25-35 loyalty drop for 24 hours.
Special Cases
Negative Scholars: There may come a time during your conquest when you cannot produce scholarships due to the section: “Number of scholars you can educate” displaying a negative number. This issue is commonly referred to as “Negative Scholars”.
“Negative scholars” typically occurs when you conquer a city that has existing scholars in it. These scholars become your scholars, raising your existing scholars tally. You can see how gaining new scholars from conquering a city may result in negative scholars from the following example equation:
5 scholar limit - (1 existing scholars + 2 scholars gained from conquest + 0 scholars being trained + 3 conquered cities) = -1 available scholar spaces
As you can see in the example above, the 2 scholars you gained from conquering the city caused you to exceed your current scholar limit of 5. In order to produce more scholars, you must first purchase the adequate amount scholarships to catch your scholar limit up to your surplus of scholars.
Scholars as Support: Scholars have no function when supporting a city; however, when conquering a city, you may often experience a confusing result of having “Negative Scholars” upon conquering the city. Fret not!
Instead, check the rally point of your recently conquered city and you may just find a few scholars out supporting an enemy city! These scholars were moved away from the city you just conquered as means of protecting them from getting killed in the siege. Much to your enemy’s chagrin, you now control the scholars that were sent away as support!
Simply recall them back to your base, and you’ll have just gained a few scholars without having to actually pay for them! You will, of course, need to build up your scholarship levels, if you are experiencing “Negative Scholars”, before training additional scholars.
Scholar Trains: Multiple scholars sent in the same attack wave will only lower a city’s defense by 20-30 points. Because of this feature, it often becomes necessary to send multiple attack waves, each containing a scholar, in quick succession. These are commonly referred to as “Scholar Trains”.
Conquering Your Own City: When a player sends a scholar train at a city, it is possible that the player may conquer the target city before the last scholar in the train reaches the city. When the last scholar in the train reaches the city, it will treat the city like an enemy city and proceed to lower its points. If the city’s points reach 0 again, the last scholar will be absorbed into the city (just like the one before it) and you will have used two (or more) scholars to take the city. Only one scholar will actually count toward your scholar limit, but all other scholars lost in this way must be re-trained at the academy. Plan your scholar trains strategically to avoid conquering your own city!
Written by bananabandana (Game Designer)
The above words were posted by Orlor a while ago. Please tell ,e where it says neg scholars are cheating?? It doesn't at all. So why are players that played the game for years going to be punished by something that wasn't tagged as cheating (until now). Above it explains who to get neg scholars but says nothing about not doing it.
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LordFirefall
- Posts: 1002
- Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 4:15 am
- Location: Montival
There's a difference in violating the letter of a rule, and violating the intent of a rule. We've discussed the huge advantages negative scholars bring, and no where in any of it has there been a discussion of banning or anything on that level. Rather, the "punishment" discussed has involved constraining those using negative scholars to the intent of the game - having scholarships for your scholars. Even then, only doing it once mass scholarship purchasing is deployed. To paraphrase Shakespeare, "The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.".
W95 Praetorian Guard Guild Leader
Kakao: LordFirefall or Firefall
Kakao: LordFirefall or Firefall
I think they should leave this alone and leave the negative scholars the way it was.
Reason being is if someone wants to sit around with two or more accounts and make one account their main, then so be it. The player took the time of their own to do this. It's an aspect of the game that has always been there and it's not cheating or exploiting.
If its something that has to be changed then it should only be for new and future worlds.
Reason being is if someone wants to sit around with two or more accounts and make one account their main, then so be it. The player took the time of their own to do this. It's an aspect of the game that has always been there and it's not cheating or exploiting.
If its something that has to be changed then it should only be for new and future worlds.
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