After 3 weeks, quickly over run.

[LostWords05]

I think it's a lot of BS that I just put 3 weeks into my worlds and just like that it is wiped away because some jerk guild wants to take it away. I have a more upgraded city than most the kids in the guild. It seems rather stupid to take a live person out of the game who contributes and is active every day so that some other person has to take care of a 6th or 7th city which they all have countless already. Why not just boot a crap player on the bottom of your guild roster and include me in it. UA Babels Storm... you bastards can go to hell. I messages all of you after the first attack and hours before the 6 incoming and none of you even had the courtesy or ***** to message me back. I will never play this game again. This is a serious flaw in the game. And to think I put money into this game. Nope, never again.

Most ridiculous ending to a game I've ever put effort into. And I just lost my main city in the other world yesterday! UGH~! I'm incredibly frustrated. I feel like I just got robbed for my money and time for no reason. NEVER AGAIN! I'm done with this crap game.

[PwnLaw]

Some people rise to a challenge like that and come back with a fury. They need the risk of loss to appreciate the heights you can attain in Valor. For them, a failure is just an indication that they need to bring their game to the next level.

Other players will find this link interesting: http://company.zynga.com/games/farmville

XOXO

- PwnLaw

[LostWords05]

Challenge?! You mean spend more money next time and pray to god I join with a better guild like the ones that destroyed me without warning? No, why even risk this frustration again? And the farmville link, was that an insult?

[PwnLaw]

Challenge?! You mean spend more money next time and pray to god I join with a better guild like the ones that destroyed me without warning? No, why even risk this frustration again? And the farmville link, was that an insult?

Most of our top players have never spent a dime. They planned their strategy and executed on it. Many of them have failed many times on the journey to success. This game is brutal and savage. It is winner take all. That's intentional.

And no, I would not expect you to be insulted by that link; merely find it more relevant to your interests. Valor caters to a specific audience, and if someone finds they don't enjoy the experience I want to make sure they find their way safely to a more hospitable environment.

[LostWords05]

I appreciate you being courteous to me. However, I want you to understand that I enjoy these types of games. My main objection is that I lost an incredible amount of work from weeks of very active playing in a brief instant without warning. This is a serious flaw in the game. I like how the game plays out, but this is more of a slap in the face. Can you see the logic behind what I'm trying to explain? It's just absurd that it would be gone that quick without warning. Even if I had a good guild, I would be completely removed from the game. What a waste of my time.

[PwnLaw]

I appreciate you being courteous to me. However, I want you to understand that I enjoy these types of games. My main objection is that I lost an incredible amount of work from weeks of very active playing in a brief instant without warning. This is a serious flaw in the game. I like how the game plays out, but this is more of a slap in the face. Can you see the logic behind what I'm trying to explain? It's just absurd that it would be gone that quick without warning. Even if I had a good guild, I would be completely removed from the game. What a waste of my time.

I think you enjoy building castles. I think you enjoy the idea of attacking players. I do not think you want those decisions to impact your outcome in the game. You want progress, not consequence. In short: I do not think you are a Valorian. That isn't meant to be an insult, just a statement that your play style may not be a match for what we do here.

Let me expand on that point by explaining my design philosophy (I run the team for Valor). I want you to understand that I'm writing this to a player that I expect probably hasn't spent a penny on our game and is likely to quit. I would like to convince you to stick it out, but that's probably not going to happen. Instead, I'm going to use this thread to get a message out. Valor is different. We are not like the CastleFarm games out there. We value a specific type of play.

WALL OF TEXT INCOMING.

You object to the core of our game philosophy: attaching risk to decisions. Nowadays, most games try very hard to minimize the downside risks to decisions -- permadeath is gone, items cannot be lost and progress is preserved at all costs. There are very good business reasons for designing games that way, but we'd prefer to move in a different direction. We want players to know that their choices, and the choices of those around them, will have a very strong impact on their ability to survive and thrive in the game.

Your primary complaint was about the mechanics of the game. Namely, that a person can lose a tremendous amount of work with little notice (perhaps because they chose bad alliances). That dynamic is an intentional aspect of the game. The potential for that loss is what causes people to join guilds and work collaboratively. It makes them play with greater thought and devise new strategies. That makes Valor unique. My belief is that there needs to be more differentiation in our space, and I was brought on as game lead to make sure that happens. I do not want to make a game like all of the others. I am going to take the very thing you object to and I'm going to focus on it. I'm going to push competitiveness and risk more, not less. I'm going to bring Valor to the ragged edge of brutality and then we're going to jump off the cliff together in a glorious flaming ball of awesome.

Other games disagree with that approach. They seek to preserve progress at the cost of meaningful consequence. I think that's a design choice they're welcome to make, but it just isn't what you'll find here. The next wave of features will be dedicated to differentiating Valor from other games in the space by significantly increasing the competitive nature of the game. It's going to be a pretty gnarly ride for those inclined to hop on the bull. Probably not for everyone though.

And so I link you to Farmville, not to insult you, but to preserve your soul. Valorians are going to the depths together, and only the prepared will survive.

[ThatValorPlayer]

Kill or be killed. If you were to succeed as a player, you would no doubt be doing the exact same thing to someone else that has happened to you..

The risk and brutality is what this game is 100% about. It is why this game is successful. If that's not for you, perhaps SimCity might be better? Seriously.

[wafflebot]

I think you enjoy building castles. I think you enjoy the idea of attacking players. I do not think you want those decisions to impact your outcome in the game. You want progress, not consequence. In short: I do not think you are a Valorian. That isn't meant to be an insult, just a statement that your play style may not be a match for what we do here.

Let me expand on that point by explaining my design philosophy (I run the team for Valor). I want you to understand that I'm writing this to a player that I expect probably hasn't spent a penny on our game and is likely to quit. I would like to convince you to stick it out, but that's probably not going to happen. Instead, I'm going to use this thread to get a message out. Valor is different. We are not like the CastleFarm games out there. We value a specific type of play.

WALL OF TEXT INCOMING.

You object to the core of our game philosophy: attaching risk to decisions. Nowadays, most games try very hard to minimize the downside risks to decisions -- permadeath is gone, items cannot be lost and progress is preserved at all costs. There are very good business reasons for designing games that way, but we'd prefer to move in a different direction. We want players to know that their choices, and the choices of those around them, will have a very strong impact on their ability to survive and thrive in the game.

Your primary complaint was about the mechanics of the game. Namely, that a person can lose a tremendous amount of work with little notice (perhaps because they chose bad alliances). That dynamic is an intentional aspect of the game. The potential for that loss is what causes people to join guilds and work collaboratively. It makes them play with greater thought and devise new strategies. That makes Valor unique. My belief is that there needs to be more differentiation in our space, and I was brought on as game lead to make sure that happens. I do not want to make a game like all of the others. I am going to take the very thing you object to and I'm going to focus on it. I'm going to push competitiveness and risk more, not less. I'm going to bring Valor to the ragged edge of brutality and then we're going to jump off the cliff together in a glorious flaming ball of awesome.

Other games disagree with that approach. They seek to preserve progress at the cost of meaningful consequence. I think that's a design choice they're welcome to make, but it just isn't what you'll find here. The next wave of features will be dedicated to differentiating Valor from other games in the space by significantly increasing the competitive nature of the game. It's going to be a pretty gnarly ride for those inclined to hop on the bull. Probably not for everyone though.

And so I link you to Farmville, not to insult you, but to preserve your soul. Valorians are going to the depths together, and only the prepared will survive.

:slowclap:

[LostWords05]

PwnLaw,

Again I appreciate you personally taking the time with me to discuss my disagreement in the game. You are right, this game really isn't for me. From a business perspective I believe you will consistently lose players because of the core of this game. However, you will most likely end up with a solid group of continuous players. This is where your bread will come from. This, unfortunately, is the same reason that while this game will succeed, it will never reach the mass audience that all businesses wish. Because it focuses on a very tiny group of people instead of the general public where the masses can join and money would fall from the heavens.

I'm not trying to bash on the game, so you know, I'm simply concluding my experience with Valor in as specific way as possible for you to give in depth thought to your own consequences of the game. I enjoy'd it. It was fun, And I was going to enjoy teaming up with a strong guild and try to conquer other people's cities. Don't think I'm a hypocrit, my objections with the game are not in this part. My objection specifically is that it takes sooooo long, (WEEKS) to get to a level high enough to even begin to conquer others. Which means, like in my case, that weeks of work will be lost instantly. There is a paradoxical problem to this "mechanic of the game".

Let me supply a couple suggests that would have kept me in the game as a loyal player:

1. Shorten the overall time it takes to accomplish reaching the conquering state. This way when people lose everything they just spent weeks for, it would be WEEK, and not WEEKS. Giving the feel that it wont take ridiculous amounts of time to reach the same level again. Thus, instead of losing 3 weeks in the blink of an eye simply because I didn't get a chance to conquer another city yet, feeling rather scammed out of money, or simply, hoodwinked and mislead. Furthermore, losing all interest in a game that deceives.

2. You are right, that it is brutal, but that should be the game that is brutal in its game aspects, NOT in the business and continuing play aspects. Lets face it, there is no continuing play aspects. For example, its like playing mario brothers, playing for most the game then dying and needing to start completely from scratch WITHOUT the continues and extra lives etc. There is no safety net to this game at all that would give a second chance at keeping any progress. To be honest, I think this concept of ooops, who cares about the time you put into the game someone just took over all ur hard work and you can abandon the world or start from scratch again, is stupid. It's like being bullied. Anyways that is just my opinion as is my entire post. Business is what I do best. Set your sites bigger. Don't just narrow it down to a small nothing crowd. Because afterall, you want your hard work to reward you with riches. You are playing the same burtal game with your business objective and frankly, it may end just as abruptly as mine in the game. Thats just my advice.

And 3. I think if you change it up just a little bit so that you don't DISMISS players after games, you will grow more players, and not have an average low amount in every world. Resulting in the need to spam NEW worlds constantly (also not a great idea) just to keep players from completely leaving after losing their other world's city. Because the players know that their only slim chance at having a fair start is to start at the very beginning of a new world. Otherwise many others are already built up, waiting for you to farm your city, and then take it away. <<< No good.

So my suggestion here is to use a similar method to other games, while maintaining your own unique version of the same general concept. Take League of Legends for example. In this PC game you can start from level 1, and gradually work your way up to the maximum level of 30. along the way you are always playing "games". this is the concept I think you should implement in Valor: The general game is made up of smaller games, similar to your worlds. However, when you win, or lose, you will continue to achieve experience based on the loss or win, that will advance you through levels. And along the way you use accrued points to purchase items that make you stronger. Even when you play your next "game" (battle that will end anywhere from 7 to 75 minutes or so) it doesn't matter if you win or lose, you're overall progress will still increase. This makes a never ending game that can always be played over and over and remain enjoyable. If you made it so that perhaps even if you lose your city you can still start a new city in the same world with half of the upgrades and resources or a portion thereof from the city you just lost. Just an idea. Or even, if you abandon a world, you still have a certain advancement that was saved from the weeks or months put into the game. Even Modern Warefare and Battlefield and others use this same concept. While you play "games" (being the battles or rounds where you win or lose) your overall game progress continues and you get stronger the more time you put in, thus rewarding the people for putting time (or money) into the game. This, I assume, is the exact concept you were talking about that you do NOT want to make your game a part of -- you are choosing not to reward people for playing your game, intentionally, to teach life lessons of consequences? That is a very brutal concept indeed, sir. Well, those other gaming concepts are what made those games into multimillion and billion dollar, international games, respectably; which I'm sure you hope for your amateur game to compete with the big boys one day... right?

Lastly, I really wish you well with the game. I hope you don't take all of this as an insult to your "baby" (game). Just as my businesses are my babies, I don't always take criticism with a grain of salt. But I do take them and try to develop off of them to continually grow. Otherwise, you only LIMIT yourself and your business. Best of luck to you and your game as well, and thank you again for personally interacting with your customer, because in fact, that's what I am (was).

Take Care,

Rob

[KMT]

Agree with PWN... After one month of playing i have been kicked out of a world more than 1 year ago... Annoying, hurting, a good lesson, a really good one. Never happened again: i learnt to play, to choose good leaders and good alliances. And to enjoy always: when i kick somebody and when i kill huge attacks on my cities.
and even when i loose cities

@lostwords05: idk if you are going to play valor again and idk if valor is right game for you but i give you two advices:
- never show your anger to your enemy because he will enjoy it. and you don't want it, no matter if you're going to quit after that. I have been on both sides: nothing is better than receiving hate mails from the guy i am attacking.And i love to tease who thinks that will make me to quit.... I have been under heavy attacks for months, i am #1 KSD in one of my worlds, i sent tons of teasing mails
-If you are going to play again try to not use gold, or to use just a little: it hurts less when you loose cities and you will enjoy more

About the game: i am always asking for improvements and complaining about bugs. But having to play for weeks and risk to loose everything in one minute is not an issue for me. It is Valor and the reason i like it. I played in slow and fast worlds and you know? I prefer slow ones cause they need more strategy - but they have same bloody slaughters.
About restarting: as long as players can restart the game they are able to be back in game. Few cities at the beginning of a world do not matter. Everybody is able to restart and, because far from earlier wars in r22, is able to grow enought to attack and defend himself. Again, i like this possibility when a world is at the beginning.