Archers

[micah444]

I think that archers could be a great addition to a wall. If you reached level 21 on your wall (or a different level, i like 21), you have units standing on the wall attacking incoming troops... Even Scouts! They would cost a fair ammount of resources (2k each) and would have low stats (like 10-15 attack 5 defence.) but if you had alot it would help with the defence of your city and make it more interesting. Also, you would not have to research these units, you only need a level 21 wall.

[PwnLaw]

I want you guys to know I'm still reading this thread. I'm really impressed by some of the design intuition being shown in the posts. There are a lot of interesting points in terms of whether to make the archer a general defense unit, a specialized anti-ram/ballista unit or perhaps even an ambush unit. I would love to see some general consensus on what would make the most sense from the perspective of increasing strategy and competition in Valor. I think we can all agree the game would lose some of its brutally awesome nature if everyone had impregnable fortresses.

I'm also intrigued by the idea of rogues, but mostly because I love rolling them in RPGs.

[Dewarrior]

I agree great addition.

[Gidude]

The idea of archers defending/supporting the wall appeals to me. Perhaps, recruiting archers is essentially a direct counter to rams and ballistas. Being an infantry unit, only 1 food should be required and the price has to be reasonable --- heavy on wood and clay, low on iron.

The big thing though is their has to be a distinction between what an archer does opposed to other units. Maybe, have them have BOTH a low attack and defense, but similar to a ram, they strike first before calculating the outcome of a battle. Basically Rams and Archers hit at the same time, followed by all other units.

I love this idea I think it is the best idea so far

[Remy3000]

Maybe archers could ambush merchants to steal resources. Put in city coordinates and send the archers. They go all the way to that city without attacking and return ambushing any and all merchants along the way.

It adds strategy because we can look at the market offers to see what players have been busy and where the likely trade routes are. An attack kills some merchants and the archers bring back as much as they can haul. If the city that sent the merchants also sends archers to defend the trade, then whoever sent more wins. If archers reach resource carrying capacity then they come directly home. Otherwise they stay on their route indefinitely hoping to intercept merchants at the right time and place. If merchants are killed, it sets market level back in the city they came from and that player only gets a report about the act, but not who was responsible.

A couple of rules would be that they cannot attack the merchants their city is trading with. So I would not be able to accept a trade then send archers to attack those merchants and thereby gain resources from the trade without giving up any. And archers would be programmed not to attack fellow guild members.

Thoughts?

[Joshuasky]

A great idea but i still like the idea of archers defending against war machines.

[Asplundh]

Historically, Archers were offensive troops and Crossbowmen were defensive troops. Also, consider either is going to be extremely Wood resource intensive when Wood is the most used resource in the (early to mid) game. I'm in favor of them both, but I'm not sure how to manage the increased demand on Wood resources.

[Marti92]

Like I proposed before I think the rouge idea is a great idea, the should cost just as mug as zerks but have higher wood cost. The idea of being anti war machine makes no sense in my opinion, most rams were made to cover the troops pushing from archer fire, and being anti ballista is ridiculous, a ballista is a crossbow on steroids, I if a ballista and bow reached out to the same distance why have a ballista? You could just use flaming Arrows and burn the buildings down. The idea of rouges/ archers as an offensive unit and adding crossbow men as a defensive unit is a good idea. Here is why crossbow men would target rouges like lancers target Calvary and like sents target infantry. Crossbows have better range and have a bigger bang, but like the old crossbows take a LONG time to restring. So when rouges get closer to the city walls they have the advantage of restring time and the crossbows lose the bonus of distance. See where I'm going. But in my other post I talked about sabotage as a rouge ability that happens when you just send rouges, now if you send them with an army they are used like I described above. The ambush I talked about too is a great idea, I know people are going to be like that's unfair. Here is how you counteract a ambush, say if I send a group of rouges to sabotage in a city ( this means they are by themselves) they rout out any ambush along the way. And if they win they proceed to the target with less rouges if they win. Now if rouges are moving with an army they cannot rout out the ambush because all the other troops are around. Makes sense? And now the ability to ambush should come at research level 2. Now the rouges have abilities, we can't unbalance the crossbow men, say they get the ability to have armor piercing tips for bolts. And at research lv2 flaming Arron's for siege machines. This would give the anti machine purpose everyone wants. Set a ram on fire and it does more damage then normal bolts. This would be good too if tey decide to add on something like a siege tower. Siege tower moves the slowest of course but you can negate the wall bonus for say 25to 50 infantry. Per tower and cost twice as much as a ballista. You can now choose between knocking down the wall or preserve the wall. The risk here is if you don't have enough towers to makes a difference, you lose the tower itself and you did nothing tithe wall. But that's a totally different subject. Sorry I got side tracked. I think the rouge and crossbow men concept makes perfect sense and is pretty balanced if both make the cut. Now the stats leave it up to the valor devs because they will have a better idea of how to make it fair. Sorry this is long but a good idea can't go unexplained.

[Marti92]

I also forgot to mention if being able to sabotage building production is going to just make the ballista obsolete then have them go sabotage war machines! And just go and kill some more troops. But in not talking a whole massacare. And since cross bowmen came into the discussion the rouge would be more offensive coordinated. The idea of messengers in another thread. Your ambush kill him leaving your army going to where they were sent. This ups the strategy of the game alot

[Marti92]

And I see people want another fast moving offensive unit, unlike archers who are foot soldiers, rouges rode horses, they were guerilla fighters of their time. So the need to move fast was necessary, so the answer was ride horses. This is a great idea and the secs want this to be unique so you can't get more unique than this! If the devs read this really think about it.