Archers

[Swindled]

Mmmm.. My defensive scouts should have a different name though... Rogue had a nice catch to it.

[bobalon2000]

What if the archers where inserted as a balanced unit, such as they have balanced attack and defense, and/or add a new building maybe like an archery range for ranged units. Such as Axe throwers (kinda like bezerks with great attack, but no defense), Horse archer (Would be fast moving, and would take more resources than the regular ground troops, like a knight), and of course the archers (balanced attack and defense so they wouldn't be to strong but have an advantage against walls.

Now how would they all fit into the circle of valor.
-Horse archers- This unit would be offensive and would be mounted so its weakness would be lancers, but it has advantages against walls, such as 20% reduction off the wall current help to the defending person. The HA would be a knight with the same speed (relatively the same size and weight) and attack, but would but would have much less defense due to the lack of armor.
-Axe Throwers- When attacking Axe throwers would have 5% advantage over wall, and would have around the same stats as bezerks for they are almost the same. For the advantage over the wall i think there should be a disadvantage when having no wall at your defending city when getting attacked for a head on war is not the style i would see them fighting in.
-Archers- The unit this is actually about. What if this was a balanced unit as a good defense with walls and a good offense with others supporting them such as an army of bezerks take on the walls with archers they get say 10% reduction in the walls defense bonus. The speed would be around 5 to 10 (Average Speed) MPF.

Now i know this isn't perfect, but i would be happy if there was a new unit add.

You could also just add ladders to the Workshop...

[Jonathan7947]

Love the idea! It could have the defense of 50 against land units and 70 against mounted, 80 attack and cost same as knights. I think this would be an awesome addition to the game since its getting kind of boring using the same troops over and over and over and over ya know? Lol

[Fire820]

But see. These aren't bringing a unique ability. That's what needs to be brought up. I haven't seen anything new. All the ideas I've seen are already implemented in another unit. Here's a unit breakdown by ability:

High attack-zerks
High mounted defense-lancers
High infantry defense-sentries
Info-scouts
High resource capacity-knights
All-around balanced-guards
Tears wall-rams
Tears any building-ballista
Captures a city-scholar
Trades resources-merchant

The only spot that I could see a new unit for is an extremely fast unit. Then you'd need 3 new units. 1 for attack, 1 for each defense. Which makes the original 3 useless really even if the stats are lower. Making it balanced, makes guardians obsolete. So, I don't really see a spot for new units. But if someone can come up with a unit that does not fit any of the above categories, I'm all ears. I'd love to hear it!

Or, as I've suggested a couple times before, make a monk unit. It would convert enemy units to your own side. If anyone is interested any more, I have details.

~Fire820~

[Crisiskiller]

I personnaly think this a great idea but for the other units there are oposites, like cav vs sentries and if you make archers it will be 10 times harder to penatrate, and its already rather difficult

[Arrigo]

This idea works well because it solves many of the problems associated with integrating archers. Generally in Medieval warfare archers were used for defense rather than attack in large scale battles regarding castles and the like. Even going back further in history to Greece and Troy if you have watched the 2005 movie you see the role of archers. They stand atop a wall and supplement the main force below. Therefore integrating archers into the wall would effectively give them a supporting role. Now there is always the question of crossbowmen which were also prominent. Without getting too complex they could be installed as simply a more unit specific killer, perhaps making them more effective at killing guardians and knights while lowering effectiveness against unarmored units while archers would be the opposite. However they would be kept as defensive units only and would not be overpowered.

[KingJames11]

Here's a basic outline of what I think on the subject of Archers (I only read to the 6th page of comments so forgive me if I'm suggesting something someone else has already suggested)


First off adding archers, in my opinion, needs to add a new building to the game; The Range
In the range you can recruit 3 units; Crossbowman, Longbow-man, and Cavalry Archers. Basic skills of ranged units would include First Strike (like rams), Last Attacked when attacking (making the assumption that they are behind all the other troops and therefore would be attacked or defended against last), and First Defensive Strike (they are the first troops to attack the attackers and yet are killed with the rest of the defending troops). All of these skills would make them unique to the game and add something totally different without upsetting too much of the balance. When they are being defended against the Crossbowmen and Longbow-men could be treated as infantry and the Cavalry Archers treated as Cavalry, or you could create a new group to defend against but I'm not quite sure how you would do that.


Crossbowmen would be easy to train and relatively cheap because in medieval times a crossbow was a point and shoot weapon that didn't take much training to master but couldn't reload as fast as a longbow-man. Thus their stats would be lower in everything compared to a longbow-man (attack, various defenses, speed) but they would be available earlier in the game (at forge lvl 5 maybe). However that being said they would be good attackers because they are sending projectiles at their enemies and unless they have good armor they will get killed or wounded. They would also be good at defense for the same reasons but they would be better hitting infantry than cavalry simply because of the movement speeds of the two types of units on the battle field.

Example Crossbowman Stats:
Pop: 1
Attack: 40
Infantry Defense: 50
Cavalry Defense: 30
Speed: 10.5-11
Training speed: around Lancer training speed (possibly faster)
Resources: Wood intensive but yet the cheapest ranged unit
All of this is just a quick guess and could be changed as long as the core of the crossbowmen is not changed (cheap, good attackers, decent defenders but better against infantry, etc, etc)


Longbow-men would be slightly more costly and take much longer to train (based off of the fact that medieval longbow-men would train for years perfecting their shot and reload speed). Their stats would reflect the long training with all-around better stats then Crossbowmen but would take a lot longer to be able to recruit (forge lvl 15 for instance) They would be good at attack and defense for the same reasons as the Crossbowmen and again they would be a little bit worse defending against cavalry.

Example of Longbow-men stats
Pop: 2-4? (maybe the cost of the master trainer or arrow maker or something included here)
Attack: 100
Infantry Defense: 105
Cavalry Defense: 95
Speed: 11.5
Training speed: Between the time it takes to train a Guardian and a Ram
Resources: Wood intensive and decently expensive
Again the stats are ust a quick guess and could be changed as long as the core of the Longbow-man is not changed (Expensive, long training periods, etc, etc)


Cavalry Archers should cost around the same as a Longbow-man but be a slightly faster train (not quite as long of a training period as Longbow-man but much faster). Stats should reflect that. They would be better than Crossbowmen but would not be as good as Longbow-men but would be available to recruit at about the same time (forge lvl 15 for instance (again)). They would be good at attack for the same reasons as all other archers but would be slightly better in defense against cavalry because they have trained on horses and so have a better understanding of their movements.

Example of Cavalry Archers stats
Pop: 2-4
Attack: 90
Infantry Defense: 95
Cavalry Defense: 90
Speed: 5-7
Training Speed: comparable to guardians
Resources: Wood intensive again, maybe comparable to a knight or guardian in total cost
Again the stats are ust a quick guess and could be changed as long as the core of the Cavalry Archer is not changed (see above paragraph for clarification)



That's my idea in a not-so-small nutshell. Looking forward for responses

[Fire820]

I'm still not seeing anything new here.

If you add them to wall, then honestly no one would need sentries or lancers. You'd basically make an impenetrable city with one unit.

Having them attack first, that's what a ram does. Plus, then you're adding a unit that would kill "x" amount of units possibly all without giving the defender a chance to defend. At least you can destroy rams before the damage is done too much. Defense shouldn't matter who strikes first or is killed last because honestly it doesn't matter. And all the stats I've seen have just been like a scaled-down guardians stats.

[Arrigo]

No this does not mean that you would create an impenetrable fortress with one unit. The archers would only constitute a small part of the total population, preventing someone from stacking a city with them and holding off an entire army with them. They would basically be a supplement to the wall and would strike first in a battle and thin the attacking ranks. If you follow the other route of the longbowman ect. then you can add a whole new dynamic to the game however it is much more complex than the wall idea.

[Bash1000]

Make archers fast cost not to much, because bows and. Arrows aren't expensive


Here's my idea
Make their damage compeletely random. In real life they might shoot with very good accuracy, or they might miss