retrain troops

[ramorocks]

the ability to convert one type troops to another would be wonderful. hell it would be magical!
convert four sentries to guardian. or scouts to beserks. in half the time or whatever. for half the price or whatever.
because it sucks reaching the farm limit and then wishing you had room to train a scholar. takes too long to send troops out on a suicide mission to make room for whatever you need.

[Kaleel]

I agree. I just spent 2 hours sending 3,500 lancers, 4,130 barbs, 650 rams on various suicide missions against barbarians w/ high-level walls, just to gain population space go recruit knights, guardians and train scholars. What a waste of time.

And to answer the question of why I trained them in the first place, the answer is I didn't -- these are armies I've inherited from conquests.

I would gladly accept a function that would allow the retraining/conversion of troops for an in-game price. For example:[INDENT]
To recruit a Lancer, you need: 60 lumber, 30 clay, 20 iron.
To recruit a Sentry, you need: 30 lumber, 50 clay, 80 iron.
To recruit a Knight, you need: 170 lumber, 140 clay, 220 iron.
(Population cost is not a factor in this transfer).

[/INDENT]

So, if you currently have 3,000 Lancers that you want to convert to a combination of Sentries and Knights, then:
3,000 Lancers = investment of 180,000 lumber, 90,000 clay, 60,000 iron. The least amount of resources invested is that of the 60,000 iron, so this determines what you can possible convert to (the remaining resources are lost to the player as part of the "price/cost" of conversion):[INDENT]
60,000 iron can yield any one of the following:
-750 Sentries, or
-272 Knights

[/INDENT]

If you chose to convert to, say, 300 sentries, then the remaining "balance" of iron available for conversion is:[INDENT]300 Sentries x 80 iron per Sentry = 24,000 iron "cost"
[/INDENT]
[INDENT] 60,000 iron - 24,000 iron "cost" of Sentry conversion = 36,000 iron remaining
36,000 iron remaining can yield any one of the following:
-450 Sentries (costs 80 iron each), or
-163 Knights (costs 220 iron each).

[/INDENT]
So now you can do 163 Knights (or a smaller value). The remaining resources of lumber and clay which are not used during the conversion are lost as part of the "price" you pay for the transaction, just like how you don't get to recuperate the excess resources when you demolish a building.

And the time it takes to retrain troops should be equivalent to the recruitment time of the desired troop type based on the player's current barracks/stable/workshop level, as in the following example (I'm just making up arbitrary time values here):[INDENT]
1 Lancer = 1 minute recruitment time.
1 Sentry = 1.5 minutes recruitment time.
1 Knight = 3 minutes recruitment time.

Converting/retraining 1,000 Lancers:
-300 Sentries = 300 x 1.5 minutes = 450 minutes = 7.50 HRS
-163 Knights = 163 x 3 minutes = 489 minutes = 8 HRS 9 MIN.


[/INDENT]
This makes the conversation equitable in-game so there's no need to fear of people mass-changing their 10,000 lancers into 8,000 knights or whatever. Sure, the cost my seem prohibitive, but it's surely an improvement over not having a choice at all (the current state) and having to suicide troops to reclaim population room.

As to how this user interface could work, I recommend that it should be an extra tab in the barracks/stable/workshop user interface. The interface would be similar to the one used in the market (where you get to choose to convert between resource types) and might look like this (but better, of course!).

EDIT NOTE: The player would have to choose a troop type in the left-hand "Choose One"column, and that selection would drive the calculations to display values in the "Possible Yield" column:


[TABLE="class: grid, width: 844, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]Choose[CENTER]One
[/CENTER]
[/TD]
[TD]Available Troops
[/TD]
[TD]Possible Yield
[/TD]
[TD]Actual Conversion
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]X[/TD]
[TD]Lancer: 3,000 (or amount shown by slider bar)
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Lancer: <Total shown here>[/TD]
[TD]Lancer: (amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Beserker: Amount determined by slider bar
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Beserker: <Total shown here>[/TD]
[TD]Beserker: (amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Scout: Amount determined by slider bar
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Scout: <Total shown here>[/TD]
[TD]Scout: (amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Knight: Amount determined by slider bar
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Knight: 272
[/TD]
[TD]Knight: 163 (or amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Guardian: Amount determined by slider bar
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Guardian: <Total shown here>[/TD]
[TD]Guardian: (amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Ram: Amount determined by slider bar
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Ram: <Total shown here>[/TD]
[TD]Ram: (amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Ballista: Amount determined by slider bar
<Total shown here>
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[TD]Ballista: <Total shown here>[/TD]
[TD]Ballista: (amount shown by slider bar)
<--Slider bar-->[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]











Just a thought.

-Kaleel

Edited on 2012-02-23 THU to correct math conversion values. Thanks, Thorvaald!

[Wrecking]

Just a thought^? More like a presentation. Very well thought out

[Kaleel]

Thanks! Hope you liked it.

I tend to go overboard on things I like, and I like this game: I created a bunch of matrices on Excel to calculate troop haul, reverse timing of launched attacks, efficiency of troop time vis-a-vis defense and offense (hint: on a single-level research world, barbs offer greater attack power than their population-based equivalent amount of guardians!) ... and other fun things.

Still can't figure out the attack/defense equations, though. I understand that percentage based on population of attacking force may be involved...

Ah, well. Time to go and develop some more cities.
-Kaleel.

[Kaleel]

...or, barring the difficulties of implementing a troop retraining/conversion mechanism, how about a "troop liquidation" option? This would allow the selected troop populations to be converted to a fraction (say, 1/10) of their resource equivalents. Using the above example of 3,000 Lancers being "worth" 180,000 lumber, 90,000 clay, 60,000 iron, then a liquidation of 3,000 Lancers would yield the immediate gain of the following resources:

• 180,000 lumber x 1/10 = 18,000 lumber
• 90,000 clay x 1/10 = 9,000 clay
• 60,000 iron x 1/10 = 6,000 iron

... and these resources would be immediately available in the player's warehouse. Another restriction: you can only liquidate troops that you have direct control over, while in the city where they came from. So you can't liquidate (1) someone else's troops that they sent to you for support; or (2) your own troops if they're currently abroad attacking/defending another city (you have to recall them).

Thanks for the consideration!
-Kaleel

[Orlor]

Some sort of way to "get rid" of unwanted troops would be nice. Will make sure it is brought up internally if it isn't already being talked about.

[Kaleel]

Yes, that's basically it. I'll settle for a "Discharge Troop" button to free up farm space w/o the hassle of tedious suicides.

Thanks for the consideration!
-Kaleel

[Thorvaald]

It was well thought out and lengthily but, math for conversion was wrong. 60,000 / 220 (Iron cost for Knight) = 272 and change. I didn't finish the rest since all of calculations involving Knight conversion would erroneous.

[Stark Bledfast]

I'd rather just dismiss the troops than retrain them.

[Kaleel]

@thorvaald: Yes, I see that now, and I know why the math was wrong. As of Valor 1.8.2, the "Units Overview" table lists the following costs:

[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Unit
[/TD]
[TD]Lumber
[/TD]
[TD]Clay
[/TD]
[TD]Iron
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lancer[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sentry[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Barbarian[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scout[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Knight[/TD]
[TD]120[/TD]
[TD]220[/TD]
[TD]160[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Guardian[/TD]
[TD]150[/TD]
[TD]180[/TD]
[TD]240[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ram[/TD]
[TD]250[/TD]
[TD]250[/TD]
[TD]200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ballista[/TD]
[TD]300[/TD]
[TD]250[/TD]
[TD]200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scholar[/TD]
[TD]50,000[/TD]
[TD]50,000[/TD]
[TD]50,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


While in gameplay, the costs are:


[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Unit
[/TD]
[TD]Lumber
[/TD]
[TD]Clay[/TD]
[TD]Iron
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lancer[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sentry[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Barbarian[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scout[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Knight[/TD]
[TD]170[/TD]
[TD]140[/TD]
[TD]220[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Guardian[/TD]
[TD]180[/TD]
[TD]150[/TD]
[TD]250[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ram[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ballista[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scholar
[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[TD]same[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



...and I was using a matrix based on the values in the Unit Overview and not real gameplay. I realize that now, and found that this issue is addressed in this post: http://forum.playmesh.com/showthread.php?1452-Unit-cost-in-unit-overview-wrong&highlight=unit+cost by Orlor as of 2012-01-26.

I'll mod my original post. Thanks for checking that!

@Stark Bledfast: If that's the feature that can be implemented more easily and faster, then I'll take that. Heck, maybe they can implement both a dismiss and a retrain option. I'm not opposed to that.

-Kaleel