LostWords05 wrote:PwnLaw,
Again I appreciate you personally taking the time with me to discuss my disagreement in the game. You are right, this game really isn't for me. From a business perspective I believe you will consistently lose players because of the core of this game. However, you will most likely end up with a solid group of continuous players. This is where your bread will come from. This, unfortunately, is the same reason that while this game will succeed, it will never reach the mass audience that all businesses wish. Because it focuses on a very tiny group of people instead of the general public where the masses can join and money would fall from the heavens.
I'm not trying to bash on the game, so you know, I'm simply concluding my experience with Valor in as specific way as possible for you to give in depth thought to your own consequences of the game. I enjoy'd it. It was fun, And I was going to enjoy teaming up with a strong guild and try to conquer other people's cities. Don't think I'm a hypocrit, my objections with the game are not in this part. My objection specifically is that it takes sooooo long, (WEEKS) to get to a level high enough to even begin to conquer others. Which means, like in my case, that weeks of work will be lost instantly. There is a paradoxical problem to this "mechanic of the game".
Let me supply a couple suggests that would have kept me in the game as a loyal player:
1. Shorten the overall time it takes to accomplish reaching the conquering state. This way when people lose everything they just spent weeks for, it would be WEEK, and not WEEKS. Giving the feel that it wont take ridiculous amounts of time to reach the same level again. Thus, instead of losing 3 weeks in the blink of an eye simply because I didn't get a chance to conquer another city yet, feeling rather scammed out of money, or simply, hoodwinked and mislead. Furthermore, losing all interest in a game that deceives.
2. You are right, that it is brutal, but that should be the game that is brutal in its game aspects, NOT in the business and continuing play aspects. Lets face it, there is no continuing play aspects. For example, its like playing mario brothers, playing for most the game then dying and needing to start completely from scratch WITHOUT the continues and extra lives etc. There is no safety net to this game at all that would give a second chance at keeping any progress. To be honest, I think this concept of ooops, who cares about the time you put into the game someone just took over all ur hard work and you can abandon the world or start from scratch again, is stupid. It's like being bullied. Anyways that is just my opinion as is my entire post. Business is what I do best. Set your sites bigger. Don't just narrow it down to a small nothing crowd. Because afterall, you want your hard work to reward you with riches. You are playing the same burtal game with your business objective and frankly, it may end just as abruptly as mine in the game. Thats just my advice.
And 3. I think if you change it up just a little bit so that you don't DISMISS players after games, you will grow more players, and not have an average low amount in every world. Resulting in the need to spam NEW worlds constantly (also not a great idea) just to keep players from completely leaving after losing their other world's city. Because the players know that their only slim chance at having a fair start is to start at the very beginning of a new world. Otherwise many others are already built up, waiting for you to farm your city, and then take it away. <<< No good.
So my suggestion here is to use a similar method to other games, while maintaining your own unique version of the same general concept. Take League of Legends for example. In this PC game you can start from level 1, and gradually work your way up to the maximum level of 30. along the way you are always playing "games". this is the concept I think you should implement in Valor: The general game is made up of smaller games, similar to your worlds. However, when you win, or lose, you will continue to achieve experience based on the loss or win, that will advance you through levels. And along the way you use accrued points to purchase items that make you stronger. Even when you play your next "game" (battle that will end anywhere from 7 to 75 minutes or so) it doesn't matter if you win or lose, you're overall progress will still increase. This makes a never ending game that can always be played over and over and remain enjoyable. If you made it so that perhaps even if you lose your city you can still start a new city in the same world with half of the upgrades and resources or a portion thereof from the city you just lost. Just an idea. Or even, if you abandon a world, you still have a certain advancement that was saved from the weeks or months put into the game. Even Modern Warefare and Battlefield and others use this same concept. While you play "games" (being the battles or rounds where you win or lose) your overall game progress continues and you get stronger the more time you put in, thus rewarding the people for putting time (or money) into the game. This, I assume, is the exact concept you were talking about that you do NOT want to make your game a part of -- you are choosing not to reward people for playing your game, intentionally, to teach life lessons of consequences? That is a very brutal concept indeed, sir. Well, those other gaming concepts are what made those games into multimillion and billion dollar, international games, respectably; which I'm sure you hope for your amateur game to compete with the big boys one day... right?
Lastly, I really wish you well with the game. I hope you don't take all of this as an insult to your "baby" (game). Just as my businesses are my babies, I don't always take criticism with a grain of salt. But I do take them and try to develop off of them to continually grow. Otherwise, you only LIMIT yourself and your business. Best of luck to you and your game as well, and thank you again for personally interacting with your customer, because in fact, that's what I am (was).
Take Care,
Rob
Thanks for taking the time to write that all out Rob. There's a lot there, but I'll give a few tidbits.
1. Agree on making the game more competitive earlier. That's a large component of the upcoming revamp.
2. The extra lives and continues is the preservation of progress I was mentioning to you. I understand why this is a preferred choice in game design these days. Valor is positioned differently. For a game of this nature, preservation of progress comes at the cost of a highly competitive environment. I encourage you to play the other games in this genre and you'll notice that you spend time but you never actually do anything. That doesn't bother some people. This game isn't for those people.
3. Agree that this market is smaller than a mass market game. Disagree that mass market is what we should strive for. I want to focus on a core group, get that established and then consider expansion into broader markets if we see an opportunity that doesn't jeopardize that core. There are many reasons for that approach. I fundamentally disagree with the thought process being applied to the mid-core free2play mobile market right now. I believe time will prove to be the factor in determining whether or not that reasoning is correct.
4. League of Legends was intensely focused on a small market (DOTA players) that common consensus suggested wasn't worthwhile. I know a good chunk of the Riot Team (from the CEO on down) and I know their story. They triumphed despite the common sentiment that the MOBA market was too small. They had to fight for that success and I deeply admire them for it. I find many people don't talk about the "size" of the MOBA opportunity in disparaging terms any more. Riot created a game that redefined a market.
Further, LoL is an intensely hardcore game. LoL requires months of play before you fully understand the basic strategy. That's a giant investment of time. They have done a number of things right and I'll cop to being a HUGE player of League and follower of their community. I pay very close attention to their approach and treatment of the competitive space. I have been in the Game Lead position for 2 months, and the changes being implemented now are designed to move the game forward materially from its current state. I will say this though: a number of people I know at Riot are/were devoted Valor players, which gives me a lot of faith that we're on the right track.
Anyways, I'll leave you with this thought: I've spent 3 hours tonight talking with you about our philosophy and where we're going with Valor. I'm reading your comments, analyzing them, considering them and responding. Ask yourself what other developer is prepared to make that commitment to their community. Ask yourself whether a company that dedicated to its community is likely to succeed or fail. Then ask yourself whether you want to be a part of this or something else.
We make games Rob. You should play them with us.
