Negative Scholars

[KMT]

Agree, agree, agree with KingArthur!!! Leave old rules for old worlds.

1) when i quit my first world, long long time ago, i spent 2 weeks building scholars for my guildies: i had more than 140 cities, you can figure how many scholars i left them because i was building more every time they were capping a city. They never asked me, i simply did last thing i could do to help them. Because it was NOT FORBIDDEN, not cheating, just a way to play.
What should have they done? killing scholars after capping my cities? please....
2) people started to play with negative scholars after getting a lot of cities and quitting members offering filled cities or their accounts. it was the way to handle with boring MCM because i can agree in having increasing scholarships to buy but lags make 100 times harder to get scholars when managing hundreds of cities. more cities and more scholarships is fine but more cities and huge waiting time is not fair. We are asking for an improvement in MCM: former Playmesh decided it was not a priority so they kept to improve graphics giving us more bugs, then TBS release, then... i know what they promised... I AM STILL WAITING.
3) i played/am playing with and without negative scholars. I do know how to play both ways exactly like i know how to play with and without chaos. And you know? where i have negative scholars both sides are using them. Both sides have many cities, both sides have quitting members who gave their accounts. So? unfair? not at all!
3) Powerbang... do you really think this will punish multiple device users? there are 2 ways to build scholars: having a friend building for you and using your other/others device/devices. Who do you think will be punished?
Who has multiple devices will simply use his negative one to nuke and to send resos to his other ones. So? Qurki will punish guys who are doing teamplay.
About resos... Yes, who has negative scholars saves resos but has other weakness.
4) As i already wrote i play with and without negative scholarships depending on world and i play against players who use/do not use negative. I faced a guy with 4 accounts. What's the problem? Were multiple devices forbidden? No. ok, we played with/against multiple devices players. Were negative scholars forbidden? No, ok we played with/against scholar builders. Was chaos forbidden? No, ok we played with/against people using chaos.

Do devs want to change rules? ok. but like they did with chaos: not retroactively.
And please stop to say that scholar building is cheating: IT IS NOT. You don't like it? i can understand but nobody ever touched code, nobody ever attempted to do anything with your servers in order to do scholar building.
Maybe somebody tried to hack the game, i am not aware but for sure not to do scholar building

And last: many old guys are still playing with releases older than TBS. They do not receive notifications, they do not play new or speed worlds, they are not interested in reading forum. Do you really want to change the rules for those guys? They are playing for years and you are going to change the rules without telling them?
Not every active player has a guildy in your guildmaster chat: how could they vote a guildy using an old release? why are they playing with old release? because they saw their gameplay getting worse release after release so they simply stopped to download.

[LordFirefall]

Based on this thread, the arguments put forth by those in favor of retaining negative scholarships in old worlds can pretty much be summed up as “no one ever expressly told us this wasn’t allowed”, and “since we’ve been doing this for so long, we should be allowed to continue”. That is an age old argument, and typically a losing one.

For example, various kingdoms in the Old World exploited the native inhabitants of the New World for hundreds of years. There were no laws against it and it was a practice encouraged by many a monarch. Using the same logic put forth in this thread, since it was done for so long, it should continue. When those practices changed, many asserted their right to continue, based on the premise that it had always been done and it would be too difficult to stop.

I’ve been in the debate KJ spoke of in the GuildMaster chat. No one is kicking these players to the curb. Rather, everything I have seen indicates it will most likely change when MCM comes online. To do otherwise, would be unfair. But to leave negative scholarships in place also isn’t fair to those who have not taken advantage of this feature.

As far as folks not hearing about this, part of our responsibility as members of the community is to pass that word on to those “old guys” who have refused to upgrade, don’t read forums, and etc. Speaking from the point of view of someone who has a device running a very old version of Valor, you might also encourage them to upgrade. Running them side by side, doing the same basic actions, the more recent upgrades yield far better results. Who knows, they might even join a new world. The community, as a whole, would be better with more of them coming to new worlds.

[KMT]

i agree with them in not upgrading. i am using 2 releases on same device: before and after TBS. having to manage hundreds of cities i prefer release before TBS.

i will try new worlds after seeing MCM and being able to play without new bugs. after that i will suggest my friends to upgrade. not before

[Kingarthur3]

So my comment whining was made for those people that have been calling it cheating, it's not cheating and never has been. It was a flaw in the design that was exploited......that's called an advantage (game accounts for this so how is it cheating, i.e. it accounts for negative scholars in the code). In war that's what you look for, a weakness and then you take advantage of it.....nobody fights fair in these worlds. Otherwise it would be no guilds and everyman for himself, even in SW's that doesn't happen so how is it expected to work that way in 1K or 5K worlds or 50K worlds from the past.

I'm not saying negative scholars going away in the new worlds is a bad idea, I don't use them in the new worlds, but that's because the game is evolving and as a player you do to. But to still change the rules on individuals after 2 yrs in a world is still a kick in the nuts cause it's changing the world as it was played/setup. No rules/changes should be retroactively placed on worlds after a certain point, whether its 1yr, 2yrs or pick a world number.

LordFirefall, whether they said yes or no you can't do it the game allowed for it so we adapted to what the world and enemies were doing. We just happened to be better than others at it, so we beat them at their own game and won. That's what a war game is intended to do!!!

[LordFirefall]

KingArthur – As with war (and war games), rules change. Players adapted before, and can do it again. You can’t claim on one side of the argument that innovation led to exploiting negative scholars, but later claim its not fair to make players innovate again and figure out how to do without it. It is merely a case of crying foul now that this exploit is possibly being closed. Life is full of choices. Some players chose not to exploit negative scholars and moved on to other worlds where it wasn’t so prevalent. Other players chose to exploit negative scholars. Those same players can choose to continue playing and overcome their scholarship debt, or not. But to say everyone should get to keep this advantage in old worlds, forever, would be the just like ignoring the magic troops bug and letting people train unlimited amounts of troops, regardless of their farm level.

[Kingarthur3]

But again you are changing the rules on things that have been place for years (and yes you did state just because its like that you shouldn't continue it). If you want to do something about it, that is right, then close down those worlds that are dead. Not all are dead like Superior said but a lot of them are and should be handled as such.
Killing inactives in world proves no value.

Oh and btw, I've already devised a way to overcome the negative scholar issue. It'll be painful but doable. Assuming I don't grow tired of doing it in a world full of losers that are dead and they just don't know it. And I've got no issues with Magic Troops either. Again a programming issue that occured at no fault of the individual. Whether they use them or not is a morale decision, but the edict that they were going to penalize an individual for using them is dumb IMO. Its not cheating if the game allows it, whether a glitch or not, its simply an opportunity for someone.
I'm sure I'll be the only one on that side of the fence, so need to argue the point as the high horse riders are going to do it for you!

This is a game and should be treated as such. I know lots of people get worked up over it, but honestly it just doesn't mean that much at the end of the day.

[Kingjason666]

I stand with KA on this. Worlds have been going on for over 2 years with this being ok. Personally If your going to take away our negative scholars cause you say it's cheating then don't just kick me and ban me for playing the game inside the parameters available.
Leaving us alive in these worlds is worse than banning us. Cause we have played this way for so long and now we are told we a cheats. But there is no way to get back to zero. And in my world no enemy or ally that could possible take all our city's so we could get back to zero. It's simply not possible to have that many scholarships.
Darth knows that he has over 800 city's and never we neg. takes him 20hours a week to scroll for a couple of scholars.

Since people do not barb after 30 days the world is still full and where the hell do we get the scholars from.

Leave old worlds as they are or close them down.

[DarthBamf666]

KJ is right. I wield over 800 cities in W14. I have never had negative scholars. And trust me it is not fun taking several hours to cycle all those cities just to unlock a small number of scholars. Nontheless I stand with both KJ and KA. That world has remained the same all this time. Don't suddenly change it. Go ahead and change it for new worlds like you did with chaos. Old world needs to stay as it was originally made.

Firefall I don't call negative scholars unfair at all. Because really you have two options for scholars.
1) Build via scholarships- Fine and dandy if you have the time to waste of your life or you wish to not sleep ever cuz if you have a life that makes you're up at 5:00am cycling cities for scholarships. I know cuz I've done it.
2) Negative scholars- Still requires time but better option for those that don't have time to cycle 800+ cities for scholarships.

I call negative scholars another way to play the game but to save time. I DO NOT claim it to be unfair. So enough of this unfair business, that's what complainers all say.

Nonetheless I think either leave it as it is or least keep it in the old worlds. Removing it from old worlds is both ridiculous and pathetic.

[LordFirefall]

We will have to agree to disagree whether negative scholars are fair, or whether they should be eliminated for all worlds. No one here has brought forth an argument that has been anything more than "we've been doing this all along, so we should get to continue it". The only remotely valid complaint, in my opinion, is the time factor that DarthBamf mentioned. However, even that will be a moot point when mass scholarship purchasing comes out.

[Kingjason666]

But that's the thing fire mcm hasn't been here or when it was auroras blessing never worked. So we all played the game as it was/is. Now that mcm is almost here the rules are going to change cause of it. Well that's not right cause too many people are far to far behind to ever catch up. So by making the game better now it destroys everything people have worked for for 2 years.

There is no better point to be raised then this has been part of the game forever and people learned to use the game that way and now will be dead in the water as soon as scholar get stolen from us. So sure make tbs worlds no negatives cause in a small world you don't need the but older world were made this way and it's no different than chaos.